sometimes, i think about dying

Stefanie Abel Horowitz directed theater for a decade before pivoting to film. Her first short film, Up North, premiered on Short of the Week in 2017. sometimes, i think about dying is her second short film and premiered at the 2019 Sundance Film Festival. She also participated in the 2019 New Voices Sundance Lab with an episodic project she co-created with Daisy Long. Abel Horowitz is repped by Daniela Gonzalez and Zach Cox at Circle of Confusion. Now, sometimes, i think about dying is up for an Oscar nomination. Check out Stefanie as she takes on the world of film.

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Miceal:

I had previously seen your short film, “Up North,” and have just recently seen, “sometimes, i think about dying.” There are similarities in both of them, where they both have a character who is emotionally isolated, or at least private, and they both end effectively with an unspoken connection.

My mind, of course, jumps to ten different questions off of that, but I would like to first jump back to the moment when movies became important for you as a viewer. What were some early movies (before applying filmmaker knowledge,) that had remained with you, and what was it about them, do you think, that made them stick?

Stefanie:

Interesting question! When I think about movies that stuck with me from childhood I would say they're mostly heartwarming. I was raised on Rom Coms like Sleepless in Seattle, French Kiss and Fools Rush In. I loved those movies. And my family loved those movies. Maybe it's because it was the 90s and movies were overwhelmingly optimistic then, but either way, I liked, and continue to like, leaving the movie theater feeling full of hope. I'd also say I hit my more thoughtful teen years when Charlie Kauffman, Spike Jonze and Michel Gondry's films were really hitting their stride. Those movies may be headier, but they’re still deeply heartfelt films usually with an optimistic ending.

Miceal:

As far as leaving the theater full of hope, are there any movies you have seen relatively recently that have satisfied that?

Stefanie:

There are definitely movies that I've loved in the last year but I'm not sure that any of them quite fit that same optimistic model. I did love Paddington 2! But I also loved BlacKkKlansman!

Miceal:

“Sometimes, i think about dying” is ultimately optimistic, but only after trudging through a bit of darkness, tension (and humor,) with an overlying sense of melancholy. I can definitely associate how I felt after your short with how I would feel after a Spike Jonze film. So your film is optimistic, but far from being as simple as that.

I saw on the “sometimes, i think about dying” website that the script was based on Killers, a play by Kevin Armento. At the same time, just from a look at “Up North” and your earlier mentioned influences, “sometimes, i think about dying” seems very much yours. How much did you and Katy Wright-Mead rework the script to satisfy your aesthetics, and how much were you just attracted to the project because it already mirrored your aesthetics? And as a short, versus a full play, what was the process of deciding what to extract?

Stefanie:

I think the short and the play are quite different but aesthetically speaking they come from the same place. They're both intimate, quiet, human pieces and I was interested in bringing the story back as a short because I'd loved working on the play so much.

The play was made of two intertwining stories, one of Fran and Robert as adults, and one of Robert as a teenager. Almost immediately we knew we wanted to focus on Fran which cut about half the text immediately. Aside from that it was a process of cutting and pasting and reworking until it made sense as it's own piece. The hardest part was writing a new ending that didn't rely on Robert's backstory.

Miceal:

I want to get to your process on working with actors, but noting that you worked on the play prompts a few more questions. I learned about you through your short film, “Up North,” so my first impression of you is as a filmmaker, meaning I wasn’t aware that you had any theatre background. “Filmmaker,” however, is vague.

It is often easy to tell a director’s entry point, whether it is through cinematography, acting, theatre, writing, editing, production design (Wes Anderson/Tim Burton.) When I read that you had directed the stage play, I was thrown, as I would naively anticipate a theatre director to shoot a movie with all scenes shot from wide, camera set up in front.

“sometimes, i think about dying” had solid acting. It was well lit, and well shot, with an understanding of cameras, lenses, and tone (and how those shots should be cut together.) There was also an awareness of how to use color, costume, locations, and props to tell the story, i.e. food, Fran’s evolving costume, etc.

What was your entry point into filmmaking? i.e theatre, Cinematography, Writing, Acting, Production design? With “sometimes, it think about dying,” how hands on were you with wardrobe, production design, camera, etc?

How much of these aesthetics did you develop through your work directing the play, and how much did you have to take to scratch for the short? Do you work with actors and department heads (DoP, Production Designer) to develop the various aesthetics?

Stefanie:

My entry point into filmmaking is directing. I don't have a background in film, cinematography, editing, acting or any kind of design. But I think the work of directing is not necessarily knowing everything about each piece but rather being able to lead a group of collaborators into telling a cohesive story.

I could tell you very little about why we would choose to shoot on an Arri Amira or a particular lens length, but I can talk to Matt, my DP, about the kind of story we're telling and what's happening emotionally in each scene. The same goes for working with all of my department heads (or in the case of a small short film basically everyone on set.)

I think once you understand what story you're trying to tell the other decisions all lie in service of that. I think of it as a nucleus that all of the departments are working to build around. This was actually taught to me by this really amazing Russian director who I took a an intensive with as part of Lincoln Center Directors lab back in 2011. He made these very fantastical stage plays and the way he did it was by understanding what was at the center and then creating the rest of the aesthetic around it. It made me realize that I could make anything if I understood just the one thing. I think about this lesson often.

As far as process is concerned, it's just a lot of talking. It's a lot of communicating. It's a lot of pitching ideas back and forth until we feel like we've come to an understanding. And I very much expect and hope that everyone I'm working with will tell me what they're seeing, what they're confused about, and what they're hoping for. It's collaboration through and through and that's the only way I know how to make something.

I'm not sure I answered all of your questions exactly but maybe I mostly covered it?

Miceal:

I very much appreciate what you said above about finding the center of the piece and building around it. While I am butchering other people’s words, Harold Clurman had something similar in his book, On Directing, about finding the center, although I believe he may have used the word ‘theme.’ But there was a funny anecdote, where an author had gotten upset when Clurman asserted that a director must first identify the theme. The author insisted there was no theme in their play, where Clurman responded that just because the author wasn’t aware of one while writing doesn’t mean that there wasn’t one driving the writing. Discovering the “theme” and building everything around it was one of the bigger elements that had stuck with me from the Clurman book.

What was the center, or starting point, in “sometimes, i think about dying”? If you think that the audience needs to do the work here, please feel free to ignore this question.

Is the center also something you discover with your collaborators, or is that something that is core to the screenwriting process, or a director breaking down a script before bringing it to the team?

And since we have breached the idea of collaboration, once you finalize your cast, what is the first thing you do with your actors after offering the roles?

Stefanie:

I'd say it's a story about how we shut ourselves in to avoid the messiness of life, even when the messiness is the good part. So, there was a lot of discussion around what feels safe and what feels vulnerable, the nothingness of death versus the richness of life.

I think, when you read a script something sticks out to you, probably more to the reader than to the writer. And hopefully, that theme pops out to the director, as well as to the collaborators. But, I do think identifying the theme, maintaining it, and holding everyone responsible for it, is the work of the director more than the collaborators.

When it comes to working with actors I think it's different for different projects and different processes. Generally, having some kind of discussion as to how we each see the character is a good start. Also, talking about the major themes is helpful - why is the script interesting? And what about it really feels juicy? it's important that we do a little work to make sure we're on a similar page and heading in the same direction otherwise the process is bound to be difficult.

Miceal:

With the understanding that each project will be different, once you are on the same page as the actor, what is the bridge between talking about the script to having actors work a scene together?

And when it comes to physically building out a character, including wardrobe, hair, as well as mannerisms, how does that work? How collaborative is that? Not just the general look, but with the evolution through a piece?

Stefanie:

Usually the actors will start working a scene together once we're on set and rehearsing. There might be a little of that in a read, but generally they're not going to start really hashing things out until set unless something feels off.

And when it comes to building out a character, that's a collaboration between me, the designers, and the actor. I think good ideas can come from any of us and it's just working together to find something that makes sense to all of us. However, mannerisms are more of the actors domain. I would make adjustments if something was feeling off, but it's also generally why you might cast someone. The feeling they bring to the character plays out in the way they hold themselves in a role and I'd consider that mannerisms.

Miceal:

How was the post production process? Was there any “finding of the movie” through editing with “Up North” or “sometimes, i think about dying,” or did they come together pretty much as intended? Were there any lessons you learned in post production that you took to “sometimes, i think about dying” or that you will take to future projects, that you can share?

Stefanie:

The post production process was long! I think it always is. We definitely found the movie in the edit for both films. Or rather, found ourselves stuck at some point in the edit and had to really reconsider what was necessary. I think that's both part of the fun and part of the pain of post. A lot can and will change during that process. For sometimes, i think about dying we re-wrote voiceover and text chats as well as cut a scene and made it into a fantasy. We also added a lot of landscape and visual shots that weren't a part of the initial conception.

I've mostly learned to take the process as it comes. Sometimes, it's frustrating and you feel lost, but every director feels lost at some point in this part in the process. It's natural and necessary. I'd say try to surprise yourself with possibilities and take all options seriously.

Miceal:

You had some pretty good premieres, from “Short of the Week” to Sundance. How did you navigate distribution with “sometimes, i think about dying?” Were you thinking about it before shooting, or is that something you started looking at after you had a finished movie? Do you have any advice to share with aspiring filmmakers on how to prep for distribution, or on the festival submission process?

Stefanie:

Distribution is tricky. If I'm honest, I still don't really know what I'm doing with it. My goal with both of my shorts was to learn something in the process and hopefully make something good. After that, I just asked other people for their advice. In fact, short of the week has an article about premiering and what to do with your movie once it's finished that we referred to when we were first delving into that process.

Miceal:

Is "sometimes, i think about dying" still circulating the festival circuit? Have you had time to start thinking about your next project? If so, would you mind sharing what you can about it?

Stefanie:

The short is still on the festival circuit and probably will be for awhile. And in the meantime, we've been hard at work writing the feature version of the short. It's really exciting and we're closing in on the end of the writing process, so hopefully we get that done and someone comes on board to make it with us ASAP!

*Note - since the interview, the movie is now being considered for an Oscar nomination, so make sure you check it out!

Miceal:

Now that you are pretty far into the process, looking back, what advice would you give filmmakers starting out?

Stefanie:

My best advice is to make things! You can't get better if you're not actually doing it. I know that can be cost prohibitive, but you can easily get a day shoot together for cheap and then take yourself through the whole of the process. And then, when you're feeling good and you think you might kind of know what you're doing, make something you love. Raise the money for it. Spend the time and energy on it. And do what you have to do to get it done. I don't think there's anything anyone can tell you that can replace the act of just making your own work in any way you can.